Episode 361
Unveiling the Afterlife: A Journey with Joan and Roger
The podcast delves into the profound journey of Jeremy Spillane, who narrates his experiences following the passing of his mother-in-law, Joan, and father-in-law, Roger. This episode emphasizes the remarkable signs and communications that Jeremy and his wife Caroline believe they received from Joan after her sudden death. Within days of her passing, they noticed inexplicable phenomena, such as televisions turning on unexpectedly, which they interpreted as messages from Joan. This initial experience catalyzed Jeremy's exploration into the world of paranormal investigations, leading him to acquire various ghost-hunting equipment, including a K2 meter, an SLS camera, and an Ovilus device. He recounts the emotional encounters they had with these devices, particularly when they were able to capture Roger’s spirit as a stick figure on the SLS camera, thus affirming their belief in the existence of an afterlife. Throughout the discussion, the themes of loss, the quest for understanding, and the interplay between technology and the spiritual realm are intricately woven together, providing listeners with a compelling narrative that challenges the boundaries of conventional belief.
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Transcript
It was almost intricate with me.
Speaker A:I don't know what it was.
Speaker A:It was a flying saucer or what it was.
Speaker A:It wasn't an airplane.
Speaker A:It was not an airplane.
Speaker A:It was down off the road.
Speaker B:You're listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal
Speaker A:podcast with your hosts, Ash Ellis and Greg Tomlinson.
Speaker C:Hey, Ash, how you doing?
Speaker D:Very well.
Speaker D:Long time no see, Greg, how are you?
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm very good.
Speaker C:I'm very good.
Speaker C:What you been up to?
Speaker D:Well, what have we been up to in the past?
Speaker C:That's right, we.
Speaker D:Nearly a week ago, actually.
Speaker C:I can't believe that.
Speaker C:That was last Wednesday, wasn't it?
Speaker C:Yeah, at the time of recording this.
Speaker C:That was last Wednesday and yeah, we were in Wales together, South Wales, doing the talk in Swansea.
Speaker D:Swansea UFO Network invited us down to give our talk from Ghost of Stars, which we did.
Speaker D:We did a talk at Power Chat last year, but we had like a short.
Speaker D:We own.
Speaker D:We only had like 30 minutes.
Speaker D:So we did the talk and obviously for this one, like an hour and a half.
Speaker D:So we really spent a lot of time expanding it and just building on some of the things we talked about that didn't have enough time to last time.
Speaker D:And I actually think it's really good.
Speaker D:It's really.
Speaker D:I think it went down really well.
Speaker C:I think it did as well.
Speaker C:There's a lot of questions at the end.
Speaker C:A lot of people.
Speaker C:A lot of people there, to be fair.
Speaker C:There was a lot of people there and, yeah, it was the first time we'd run through it properly.
Speaker C:So now that was interesting in a few jokes.
Speaker C:I. I thought it was really good.
Speaker C:I thought it was really good.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker D:I enjoyed it.
Speaker D:I enjoyed it.
Speaker D:And we're going to be taking that talk on tour this year.
Speaker D:If you've not seen our social media, we've got a UK tour lined up all across the uk, some dates still to be finalized.
Speaker D:We're going to be in Hull, York, Leeds, Birmingham, St Helens, Manchester, Pantifat, Essex, probably some other places throughout the year.
Speaker D:We're going to be giving this talk.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:To as many people as possible.
Speaker D:I think what we actually talk about is actually really interesting and it's not something I've seen other people talk about either.
Speaker C:No, it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I think it's really good when people see it.
Speaker C:I think they'll understand and they'll.
Speaker C:They'll see the.
Speaker C:The parallels between UFOs and, and the paranormal and I think it will make a lot of sense to people.
Speaker C:And they go, oh, yeah, yeah, I can.
Speaker C:Yeah, I See that.
Speaker C:And I think.
Speaker C:I think people really like it and not just bias, but I do think it was a fast.
Speaker C:It went.
Speaker C:The time flew by.
Speaker C:Time flew by, yeah.
Speaker C:And when.
Speaker C:When I thought about how long we're gonna have to speak for, I thought that was going to be a challenge.
Speaker C:But I think the challenge was keeping it to that length rather than getting to that thought.
Speaker C:Yeah, no, it's fascinating.
Speaker C:And the people there were really good.
Speaker C:They had a load of valid questions, everybody.
Speaker D:Because it was a UFO group, it was like we have some sort Aussie engage them throughout the talk and asking them questions and stuff and sort of the paranormal stuff we're talking about, no one really knew much.
Speaker D:So whereas when we gave the talk at Power Chat, that more paranormal audience, so they knew some of the things we're talking about.
Speaker D:Whereas this, right, when we asked anybody know what the Essence Method is?
Speaker D:It's like a resounding no.
Speaker D:So she would just explain what that was briefly.
Speaker D:So I wasn't sure how it would go with it being quite heavily paranormal base as well.
Speaker D:How it go at a UFO talk, a UFO meeting.
Speaker D:But I think it was.
Speaker D:Yeah, everyone seemed engaged.
Speaker D:Yeah, throughout.
Speaker C:It's unusual to.
Speaker C:Unusual to.
Speaker C:To see a group of people that don't know what Estes is based on the.
Speaker C:The normal community that we speak with and talk to Estes methods.
Speaker C:Pretty standard thing in the paranormal, like you say.
Speaker C:So it was.
Speaker C:It was interesting.
Speaker C:And then I. I think we had some people come up to us in the break and afterwards and it's like you were spot on with what you're saying there.
Speaker C:That was brilliant, all those kind of things.
Speaker C:So it was.
Speaker C:It was really cool.
Speaker C:It was really cool.
Speaker C:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker C:It was a long way to go, to be fair.
Speaker D:I didn't get nearly 700 miles that week.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:Right, this.
Speaker C:This is how funny it was that by the time I filled up with petrol on the way, which at time of this was halfway through the first week of everything that's happening in the Middle East.
Speaker C:So I went to one particular petrol station on the way back over.
Speaker C:Over the night, the few hours it actually gone up 4p a liter in the time that we'd been away, I said, so, yeah, it was.
Speaker C:It was well worth going there.
Speaker C:Absolutely loved it.
Speaker C:Everybody was so nice.
Speaker C:It's going to be on their YouTube soon.
Speaker C:I don't know when it's going to be up there, but the whole thing.
Speaker C:So they'll be interesting to see how that looks on camera.
Speaker C:And we did try well, you are
Speaker D:planning to come to one of our talks.
Speaker D:Don't watch YouTube, so you don't get any spoilers.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker D:Wait for the real thing.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker C:That's a good point.
Speaker C:So tonight.
Speaker C:So we're recording this after we've had the conversation and we've spoken to a gentleman by the name of Jeremy Spillane, who's co authored a book with his father in law.
Speaker C:The interesting fact though, Ash is
Speaker D: father in law died in: Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:And he wrote the book posthumously.
Speaker C:So it's an interesting account of everything that's happened to them on their journey to write this book.
Speaker C:You will notice that we don't speak much during this episode, but this was to give Jeremy the full bandwidth to just explain it all.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which he does a great job of.
Speaker C:He explains the equipment he's been using, how it, how it all started his journey, scientific research, mediumship, and goes into a lot of detail as to how it all came about.
Speaker C:So we didn't need to get involved too much.
Speaker C:We just let him tell his story.
Speaker D:It was nice to sit back and relax and listen to the fascinating story.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker D:So, yes.
Speaker D:So we employees do the same.
Speaker D:Just open your mind, open your ears and let Jeremy just share his and his father and mother in laws story with you all.
Speaker D:Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker D:Jeremy Spillane.
Speaker D:Is that pronounced correctly?
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Thanks very much.
Speaker B:It's lovely to meet you both and have a chat with you tonight.
Speaker E:Okay, you've got a very interesting story that we're going to cover off tonight where you say that and have shown that you're able to communicate with your mother in law and father in law and that during podcast, during videos that you've done, you're able to communicate.
Speaker E:They show up.
Speaker E:So Roger and Joan show up on for you.
Speaker E:You mention in the book that you've got Joan and Roger alive in the afterlife, that you, you now have a continued relationship and communication path with them following their passing some years ago.
Speaker E:So which is, which is absolutely fascinating.
Speaker E:And when, when I read that bit, I was just like, okay, this, this is going to be interesting.
Speaker E:Both me and Ash, paranormal investigators.
Speaker E:Um, so before we get into your communication with Joan and Roger, let's go back a little bit.
Speaker E:So if you're happy to talk about how, how this came about.
Speaker E:How, how did you get to a point now where you're in regular communication with them since they've passed?
Speaker B:Well, I've known Joan and Roger around 40 years.
Speaker B:I met My wife, Caroline, who's their eldest daughter.
Speaker B:They had two daughters, Caroline and Alison, who's a couple of years younger than Caroline.
Speaker B:So I met Caroline when we were both actually 17.
Speaker B: That was in: Speaker B:So I sort of met Joan and Roger, Caroline's mum and dad, sort of virtually straight away, within a matter of days, and obviously known them ever since until they both died just a few years ago.
Speaker B:So I knew them very well.
Speaker B:They were like a second set of parents to me in many ways.
Speaker B:And Joan, Roger had met through their church.
Speaker B:They were both Jehovah's Witnesses.
Speaker B:But then when they had the two daughters, then they stopped going to church, apparently, and Roger stopped believing in everything that had been taught by the church.
Speaker B:So he, he didn't believe in an afterlife anymore, which is obviously what he was taught, is what happens when you die.
Speaker B:And over the years, I did sort of try talking to him about things like that once or twice.
Speaker B:And he was always adamant that he, he would say to me, no, there's, there's no afterlife.
Speaker B:There's nothing when you die, that's it.
Speaker B:That's the end and nothing more.
Speaker B:And he was adamant with that.
Speaker B:And I had been brought up myself as a Catholic by.
Speaker B:My dad, had two older brothers, and we all went to church with my dad every Sunday.
Speaker B:And then when we were sort of teenagers, we each of us stopped going to church.
Speaker B:And I, for one, stopped believing in what the Catholic faith taught me.
Speaker B:I didn't believe in an afterlife anymore either.
Speaker B:But like Roger didn't, I was always open to persuasion.
Speaker B:And had I seen some proof one way or the other, I would have, you know, I could have believed that there was an afterlife.
Speaker B:And my background when I was young, when I was a child, I used to be scared of the dark.
Speaker B:I used to have nightmares.
Speaker B:And my parents would tell me, oh, don't worry, you know, there's no such thing as ghosts or monsters.
Speaker B:You know, you're just imagining things like that.
Speaker B:But I, I always had to sleep with the light on till I was, I don't know, probably about eight years old or so.
Speaker B:And I obviously grew out of it, so I didn't believe in ghosts, but I could have easily done.
Speaker B:I, I, you know, I could have scared myself believing in them.
Speaker B:So I always tried to put them out my mind, really.
Speaker B:So I spent the next four decades not believing in anything paranormal.
Speaker B:I'd never encountered anything paranormal as far as I knew.
Speaker B:And I didn't believe in the afterlife because it just seemed too incredible to believe.
Speaker B:And so that's how it was.
Speaker B: And then in: Speaker B:She did have some heart condition, but she didn't make much of it.
Speaker B:And it was always thought by everyone that Roger would die first because he had a whole list of medical problems which he'd got through, you know, throughout his life.
Speaker B:He'd had a triple heart bypass operation, you know, a few decades before he died, and all sorts of other problems.
Speaker B:He had diabetes and goodness knows what, but he'd always got through them all.
Speaker B:And so it was always thought.
Speaker B:I'm sure he thought that.
Speaker B:And I think we all thought that Roger would die before Joan did.
Speaker B:But surprisingly to all of us, Joan died very suddenly.
Speaker B:Joan and Roger were just sat in their living room in East Yorkshire, where they lived, and apparently Joan was just getting up out of her chair one evening and she just collapsed and fell on the carpet and didn't have time to say anything, you know, didn't have time to say goodbye.
Speaker B:And that was the first sudden death in our family that Caroline or I had ever experienced.
Speaker B:And we'd had quite a number of family funerals over the years, you know, people dying within the family, and we'd never had any hint of any signs or anything after any other people had died.
Speaker B:And I just assumed, you know, that's how it is.
Speaker B:There's no afterlife, I thought, and, you know, you wouldn't expect any signs.
Speaker B:Why would you?
Speaker B: And then Joan dies in: Speaker B:And I think probably because it was a sudden death, she.
Speaker B:Within a day or two of her dying, Caroline and I started getting whole load of signs at our house.
Speaker B:We lived in West Yorkshire.
Speaker B:We were about 30 miles away from where Roger and Joan had lived.
Speaker B:And we got these signs and we got things like the television switching on in our house.
Speaker B:We had a few televisions in the house where we live, and any of them might switch on, particularly if we walked into a room, the television might switch on as you went into that room, for instance, and the one in our bedroom would switch on in the middle of the night, you know, while we were asleep.
Speaker B:And it would wake us up.
Speaker B:Suddenly it's on, you know, and people might think, well, it's just faulty televisions, but I can understand one going faulty, but not several at one time.
Speaker B:And we had the bedside light turning on again in the middle of the night.
Speaker B:And initially it was quite a shock to us, but we, Caroline and I, instantly realized it was her mum giving us signs that she was still there.
Speaker B:And this is the first time we'd Ever experienced anything like this at all.
Speaker B:And it was just totally incredible.
Speaker B:And we loved it.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:We were talking to her saying, joan, that's you, isn't it?
Speaker B:And, you know, thanks for giving us the sign.
Speaker B:And after a while, we were sort of losing a bit of sleep, so it became a slight problem.
Speaker B:And I did do something to try and make the television not turn on so easily.
Speaker B:I put an extra switch in line with the power lead, but that didn't stop it, so it still turned on anyway.
Speaker B:So, of course, we told Roger about these signs that we thought were from Joan, and he just didn't say anything.
Speaker B:He didn't.
Speaker B:I don't think he knew what to say.
Speaker B:And he had a strange look on his face, you know, sort of half a smile, half a sort of grimace, as if he obviously thought we were both nut cases, I think.
Speaker B:And he just didn't say a word, to be honest.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:So we couldn't talk to him about them, you know, we tried a couple of times and nothing.
Speaker B:So we thought, okay, we.
Speaker B:We won't mention it again.
Speaker B:And from his reaction, I'm guessing that he won't have had any signs from Joan.
Speaker B:And thinking about it later, I think that's probably how she would have been because she will have known that Roger had his own heart problems and other things.
Speaker B:And had she given him a sign like we were getting know, it might have given Roger a heart attack and he might have died there and then.
Speaker B:So she was just sort of trying to save him from any undue frights, potentially.
Speaker B:Also, Caroline's sister Alison, we told her about the signs that we thought we were getting from her mum.
Speaker B:And she didn't say anything as if she'd had any signs.
Speaker B:So pretty sure she didn't.
Speaker B:So for some reason, Joan was giving Caroline and I these signs.
Speaker B:And I think it's because Jo must have sensed that we, you know, we would have been receptive to them and we would have welcomed them.
Speaker B:She must have known that.
Speaker B:So that's why we got them, we think.
Speaker B:So apart from the televisions turning on and the light, bedside light turning on, we got one or two other things.
Speaker B:My favorite sign of all from Joan, and it's still my favorite, is four days after she died, we were walking around a local ancient castle near where we lived in West Yorkshire.
Speaker B:It's called Sandal Castle, and it's hundreds of years old.
Speaker B:And this old castle ruin is surrounded by a big earth mound, you know, covered in grass, a big steep slope around it.
Speaker B:And you can walk along the top of this.
Speaker B:And we were walking, Caroline and I, with our pet spaniel, Poppy, who is also featured in the book that I subsequently wrote.
Speaker B:So Poppy was our pet, and she was very important to us, especially at this point, time of, you know, Karen's parents dying.
Speaker B:Poppy was a sort of real grounding sort of presence for us.
Speaker B:And we were walking, the three of us, around this earth mound, and suddenly I spotted a bird of prey in a small tree that was halfway down this grassy slope.
Speaker B:So the bird was roughly at similar height to what we were at, because we were on the top of the mound.
Speaker B:And I said to Karen, I'm just going to walk towards that bird, see what sort of bird it is, because I. I've always been keen on birds and had a reasonable knowledge of them.
Speaker B:And as I walked towards this, and it turned out to be a female kestrel, you know, a small bird of prey, as I walked towards it, it suddenly flew out of the tree towards the three of us, and it flew around us in two very pretty tight circles, you know, at around the height that we were at, you know, just above our head height.
Speaker B:And then it flew back to the tree and perched there again.
Speaker B:So I was certain this must have been germ, because it's not the normal behavior of a wild, wild bird like that.
Speaker B:And some people say, well, it might have just been sizing up our pet dog, you know, thinking it might be prey.
Speaker B:But kestrels only hunt things like little mice.
Speaker B:And our dog was sort of 15 kilos in weight, so there's no way it would have been thinking of that, you know, that that could be a meal or anything.
Speaker B:So I'm sure that was Joan.
Speaker B:And Karen did actually get one or two.
Speaker B:I think she got two still photographs of that actual bird, but it was in the tree.
Speaker B:We didn't have it, you know, photographed flying around.
Speaker B:So we were getting these signs from her, and these kept going, you know, for a period of time.
Speaker B:Over the subsequent, you know, couple of years, perhaps, the signs reduced in number, but we still got them, and we have had them in sort of more recent years as well.
Speaker B:But anyway, as I say, Roger didn't believe that or didn't admit that he believed it.
Speaker B:So he.
Speaker B:Roger was still adamant that there was no life after death.
Speaker B:And then the last year or so of Roger's life, he suddenly all his medical problems were catching up with him and he was becoming very ill. And the last year, or perhaps a bit more, he was spending a lot of his time in hospital, you know, Weeks on end.
Speaker B:And then when he was well enough to come home, then he'd be at home.
Speaker B:And Karen and I actually moved over to be near him from West Yorkshire.
Speaker B:We had a food business, a fish and chip shop actually, in West Yorkshire, and it was a bit of a millstone around our neck.
Speaker B:And we took the opportunity to sell up and move to be near Roger, East Yorkshire.
Speaker B:So we moved to a place just a few miles away from him.
Speaker B:And the idea was that, you know, we would be with him a fair bit and we would comfort him after Joan's death.
Speaker B:And it would help us as well, you know, because we were all bit traumatized with Joan's sudden death and it was a big shock to us all, of course.
Speaker B:So we were with Roger and we'd see him most days.
Speaker B:He would sometimes, gradually, he sort of started living his life again.
Speaker B:And part of the thing with Roger, with not believing in life after death, he had a sort of whole list of things he wanted to do.
Speaker B:He liked traveling and he did travel by himself, you know, a couple of times after Joan had died, and also with a friend now and again.
Speaker B:And so Roger was trying to cram in a whole list of things before he died, as he saw it.
Speaker B:But anyway, we were with him sort of each day when he wasn't, you know, if he wasn't away on a trip or something.
Speaker B:And then Covid came, of course, and that was traumatic for everyone, you know, worldwide, not just in the uk.
Speaker B:But it was such a nightmare, the all the rules and regulations that we had to supposedly follow.
Speaker B:Luckily, Roger never got Covid, but Karen and I would visit him each day and we'd go in the car to the local park initially, take our dog for a nice long walk, you know, that one bit of daily exercise that we were allowed.
Speaker B:Then we'd go on to Rogers and visit, and then we would perhaps sneak in the house and have a cup of coffee with him if the weather was too freezing to be sat in the garden or anything stupid like that.
Speaker B:But we were just trying to stop ourselves from, you know, going around the bend, you know, the mental torture was terrible.
Speaker B:But Caroline's sister Alison was a bit of a stickler for the rules, so she used to tut a bit, you know, if we weren't sticking to them properly.
Speaker B:But, you know, Karen and I just thought, oh, well, you know, we've just got to break the rules, otherwise we will all go insane.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:That's not really sensible, is it?
Speaker B:And Roger was, you know, in his mid-80s by now.
Speaker B:In actual fact, when Roger did die, he was the same age as Joan had been.
Speaker B:They were both 86 when they died because Joan was older than Roger.
Speaker B:But anyway, four years, just over four years after Joan had died, then Roger, you know, was very ill in hospital and subsequently died.
Speaker B:So about a week before he died, he went into hospital for the last time.
Speaker B:And then, you know, when the time came, we didn't realize that he was that close to death.
Speaker B:We didn't really think he was going to die there.
Speaker B:And then, you know, we thought it got many months left probably and Caroline was called by the nurse and said, you know, you might want to come down and be with your dad.
Speaker B:She didn't make out it was anything urgent, but Caroline went down and she was with her dad holding his hand.
Speaker B:And you know, he was actually out of it by this stage.
Speaker B:He wasn't talking and didn't seem to be sort of looking with his eyes, didn't seem to be able to see her and recognize her, but he wasn't totally unconscious.
Speaker B:So Caroline was holding his hand and you know, it wasn't pleasant for Caroline, I know, but he, he did die and that was obviously a shock for us, but it wasn't a sudden death like Joan.
Speaker B:Joan's death had been.
Speaker B:So Caroline rang me and said, you know, Dad's died.
Speaker B:And so she rang her sister as well.
Speaker B:So Alison, her husband Colin and myself, the three of us went down to join Caroline at the hospital where her dad had died.
Speaker B:And we were with him then.
Speaker B:And you know, we were obviously trying to comfort each other and we were again in a bit of shock, but not quite the same shock as it had been with Joan because Joan was so unexpected for us.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So anyway, they'd both died by now, Joan and Roger, and we'd actually been to see a medium some.
Speaker B:Well, it started a few years before Roger died.
Speaker B:Alison's husband, Colin, his dad, had died a few years previously and Colin had seen an advert in the local paper for a medium called Stephen Holbrook.
Speaker B:And he's actually.
Speaker B:He lives in Yorkshire but he travels the country and he goes beyond, you know, travels on ships and all sorts of things and he does public performances.
Speaker B:He doesn't do any one to ones, but he does shows.
Speaker B:And Colin had seen this advert for Stephen Holbrook after his dad died.
Speaker B:And Colin thought, I ought to go and see this chap, even though he'd never heard of him before.
Speaker B:And Colin went and amazingly his dad came through with an amazing, amazingly accurate message through Steve.
Speaker B:And so Colin told us about that, and he sort of recommended Stephen Holbrook to us.
Speaker B:And we'd.
Speaker B:We'd seen him a few times, but we'd never had any personal messages until three weeks after Roger had died.
Speaker B:There was a show that Stephen Holbrook was doing.
Speaker B:So the four of us actually went to this show because even though Roger hadn't been dead very long, I said to Karen, I think we ought to go to this show because you never know, your dad might come through.
Speaker B:And sure enough, he did.
Speaker B:And so Roger came through with an amazingly accurate message that sort of proved that that was Roger talking through Stephen Holbrook and proved that he was alive somehow in the afterlife.
Speaker B:And the things he said were just incredible.
Speaker B:So one of the things he said was, as he was leaving his home in the ambulance for the last time, going to the hospital, you know, a week before he died, he asked the ambulance people to move three climbing plants that he'd bought that were in his porch.
Speaker B:He asked the ambulance people to put them in the garden so they'd get some rain and they wouldn't die of lack of water.
Speaker B:And so the ambulance guy did that.
Speaker B:And Roger said this in the message through Stephen, you know, there's three climbing plants and in pots, young ones, and, you know, I want them to be taken care of.
Speaker B:And so we.
Speaker B:We'd got them anyway.
Speaker B:But that's just amazing that he knew that.
Speaker B:Another thing he said was that, you know, when he died, it wasn't painful or anything, you know, there was no pain involved and it was all totally smooth.
Speaker B:He also said that he'd been buried in the wrong shoes, and that's true, that he was supposed to have some black shoes to go with his suit and everything, but at the last minute, for some reason, they couldn't be found.
Speaker B:So he'd ended up having these brown shoes instead, which, you know, you couldn't see them in the coffin.
Speaker B:But that was right.
Speaker B:He was buried with the wrong shoes.
Speaker B:And also another thing he said was, I had a few books in my coffin when I was buried.
Speaker B:You know, you put books in with me.
Speaker B:And that's true.
Speaker B:So Roger was a, you know, book fanatic.
Speaker B:He had hundreds or thousands of books and he loved books.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He was a highly educated man.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He was an Oxford University graduate and he had been a teacher in his early years, and then he'd gone on to sort of bigger and better things in his career and education and knowledge.
Speaker B:And books were Roger's sort of three main things.
Speaker B:In life.
Speaker B:So everything about learning and all, everything to do with that was so important to Roger.
Speaker B:So anyway, with this Stephen Holbrook message, we.
Speaker B:We knew that Roger was obviously alive in the afterlife and effectively sort of giving us an incredibly accurate message.
Speaker B:Almost like not quite talking to us, but the next best thing, I suppose you'd say.
Speaker B:So anyway, we were all amazed by this.
Speaker B:So once we got home, there's obviously things to organize with the Rogers.
Speaker B:Well, Roger's funeral happened actually by the time this Stephen Holbrook reading.
Speaker B:But after Roger died, then there were things to organize and we were sort of.
Speaker B:Caroline and I were going to the cemetery a lot by this stage because we were getting Roger's grave ready.
Speaker B:He was going to join Joan, where Joan was already buried in, in East Yorkshire, in Howden, where they lived.
Speaker B:So one of the first things we had to do was to move some stuff off Jones grave before Roger's funeral could.
Speaker B:Could take place.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:There was a potted rose plant, you know, a small rose in a pot that needed moving.
Speaker B:So I had the.
Speaker B:I brought the wheelbarrow and Karan was actually filming, filming me on the iPhone, which sounds a bit odd, but we started using the iPhones to video things before Roger had died because I think it was a few months before he died.
Speaker B:We'd been at another local cemetery in the town where we lived.
Speaker B:No, no relatives of ours were buried there at all.
Speaker B:We, you know, you were just allowed to walk the dog.
Speaker B:And it's a lovely place to walk the dog.
Speaker B:So we were walking the dog one day and Caroline spotted this blackbird that was having a bath in a little.
Speaker B:In the recess on someone's gravestone where you put a sort of funeral little urn with flowers in it, whatever little pot that was full of rainwater.
Speaker B:And this blackbird was having a bath in it, splashing around.
Speaker B:And it just looked really good.
Speaker B:So Caroline decided to video that.
Speaker B:And then when she videoed it, she saw that while she was videoing, she thought she saw a light anomaly in front of the blackbird.
Speaker B:And it looked like a little ball of light, almost like a globe, like a big soap bubble effectively on the grass in front of this gravestone.
Speaker B:So Karen thought that's a bit strange.
Speaker B:And for a while, for, you know, quite a few weeks or more, we thought it was a light anomaly.
Speaker B:But later I realized it was.
Speaker B:It was just a stray reflection in the camera lens of the iPhone.
Speaker B:But anyway, whatever the reason, it made us start videoing whenever we were at the cemetery, you know, where Joan and Roger were going to be buried or whatever where Joan was already buried.
Speaker B:And we started videoing because we thought, well, if.
Speaker B:If that had been a light anomaly, then it might be that we'll see some more.
Speaker B:And we thought, you know, it could be that Joan having given us signs, and maybe Roger might want to give us signs, you know, we might see something on the videos.
Speaker B:So every time we took a video, I would.
Speaker B:When we got home, I'd have a really careful look through the video to see if I could see any light anomalies of any sort.
Speaker B:And a number of times I did.
Speaker B:And I was certain I. I could tell the difference between, you know, a reflection or something that was very easy to explain, conventional.
Speaker B:But there were some that didn't fall into that category.
Speaker B:And I was certain they were light anomalies, and I did think these were Roger.
Speaker B: So after Joan had died in: Speaker B:As soon as Joan died, I started trying to sort of educate myself as fast, as much as I could.
Speaker B:So I was getting all the books I could find on everything, you know, sort of life after death, ghosts, everything paranormal.
Speaker B:I was watching all sorts of programs.
Speaker B:I was watching things, ghost hunting programs.
Speaker B:I was reading scientific books that might explain something.
Speaker B:So in the ghost hunting programs I was watching, I didn't like the way they did ghost hunting, you know, at night.
Speaker B:And sometimes it's a bit dramatic.
Speaker B:And I thought, you know, they're just doing it to make an interesting program, you know, dramatic program, perhaps scary.
Speaker B:And I wasn't into scary things at all.
Speaker B:You know, I could have easily frightened myself silly.
Speaker B:I still didn't like the dark particularly, but I was looking at the equipment they were using and thinking, you know, is that working or not?
Speaker B:Is it genuine?
Speaker B:And I did come to the conclusion that some of the equipment really was working and was genuine.
Speaker B:And so I was sort of very interested in how the equipment might work and what it might do.
Speaker B:So after Roger died and we take in these videos on the iPhone and we're seeing light anomalies here and there, Caroline kept saying to me, you know, why don't I get some ghost hunting equipment?
Speaker B:She thought I might be interested and might like it.
Speaker B:And I said, no, you know, I'd be really.
Speaker B:I'd be scared stiff.
Speaker B:I wouldn't be able to do it, and I don't really want to do it.
Speaker B:I. I don't see the attraction of just going and, you know, Trying to find a ghost of someone that you don't know or didn't know in life.
Speaker B:And, you know, I couldn't see the attraction personally from my point of view, but it, what she was saying did get me thinking.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, okay, if I.
Speaker B:What if I did get some ghost hunting equipment, supposing it worked, and if I could track down Joan and Roger's spirits, that would be fascinating.
Speaker B:I'd be really keen to do that.
Speaker B:And I thought, you know, it's going to be a big hell of a long shot, but it's possible.
Speaker B:And so I'd seen the equipment that I thought worked well.
Speaker B:So I said to Karen, okay, we'll maybe try it.
Speaker B:And I'll just get one bit of kit initially, the K2 meter, which obviously you'll be familiar with, but people that don't know it's an EMF meter.
Speaker B:It's a simple device, wasn't designed for ghost hunting, but ghost hunters found that they are actually surprisingly effective at detecting spirits, maybe.
Speaker B:And if there's a spirit nearby, then this meter can give a high reading to show there's some presence nearby.
Speaker B:So it's just a thing with five LED lights on it.
Speaker B:And there's a green one that's on when you've got it turned on, the green ones on constantly.
Speaker B:And then if the, if you get higher reading, then the other lights will light up up to the maximum reading, which is up to the red light coming on.
Speaker B:So I said to Karen, I'll get one of these to start with and I'll.
Speaker B:I'll only get genuine equipment.
Speaker B:I won't get cheap copies because if nothing happens, we won't know if it's just because it's a cheap thing that's not decent or, you know, or whether there's no spirit there in the first place.
Speaker B:I said, I'll get good stuff and we'll see what happens.
Speaker B:And if it doesn't work, then we'll sell it and recoup our money, hopefully, or some of our money.
Speaker B:So I got this K2 meter, which is only about £40, to buy new.
Speaker B:And we went to the cemetery where Joan and Roger were buried.
Speaker B:And when we got to the grave, I turned the K2 meter on and straight away, you know, I said, roger, are you there?
Speaker B:And then straight away we're getting a high reading on this thing.
Speaker B:It's flashing up into the red.
Speaker B:And we end up sort of having a conversation with Roger.
Speaker B:So I thought, and I'm pretty sure we did.
Speaker B:So the cemetery where they buried.
Speaker B:Their graves are sort of a couple of hundred yards or more from the road.
Speaker B:And there's no lights of any.
Speaker B:No electric lights in the cemetery.
Speaker B:There's no electricity in the cemetery at all.
Speaker B:So if this.
Speaker B:If this meter was given readings for any reason, then I was certain it would be because there must be a spirit there.
Speaker B:And we really did seem to be able to have a conversation with Roger, as I thought, with this thing.
Speaker B:So I'm saying, that is you, isn't it, Roger?
Speaker B:And he flashes the thing up into the red and, you know, saying, well, Karen suggested I might get some ghost hunting equipment.
Speaker B:And I told him what I was thinking of getting.
Speaker B:And again, he's flashing the K2 meter, you know, very strongly into the red.
Speaker B:And I'm saying, that's you, isn't it, Roger?
Speaker B:You're the skeptic who doesn't believe in life after death.
Speaker B:That is you, isn't it?
Speaker B:And again, he's flashing the meter into the red.
Speaker B:And then at one point, we went a couple of times with this thing.
Speaker B:I can't remember which visit.
Speaker B:But anyway, one time Karen says to me, there's some people coming into the cemetery.
Speaker B:You know, you better put that away.
Speaker B:So I'm saying, okay, I'll turn it off now.
Speaker B:So I'm saying, roger, there's people coming in.
Speaker B:I better turn it off, otherwise people will think we're weirdos.
Speaker B:And again, big flashes of the K2 meter.
Speaker B:So we're even able to have a bit of a laugh with him, a bit of a joke, but I was certain that was him.
Speaker B:So anyway, I told him that because he's responded so well on this K2 meter that there's two other bits of kit I'm planning on getting that I'd seen working well on these programs.
Speaker B:And one of them is an SLS camera, which people who don't know it's a structured light sensor camera is the official name.
Speaker B:And it's basically a sensor that was designed for video games, you know, sort of 15, 20 years ago or whatever.
Speaker B:It's a Microsoft thing.
Speaker B:And people had these Microsoft Xbox games, which I never did, but I'd seen them around once or twice.
Speaker B:You had one?
Speaker E:I had one, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know they were popular, but I never actually used one.
Speaker B:I've.
Speaker B:I don't remember ever actually seeing one in use, to be honest, but novelty, yeah.
Speaker B:These things were common, weren't they?
Speaker B:And they're comparatively cheap.
Speaker B:And although they're obsolete now, you can still buy the sensor.
Speaker B:I've bought a Couple, since I've got the first one.
Speaker B:And you can buy them still in a box, totally unused, and they're really cheap to buy.
Speaker B:And initially I got this one from America because I didn't know about the ins and outs of them, how they worked or anything.
Speaker B:And I bought this thing and I sort of vaguely knew this SLS camera from America was based on this sensor, but I wasn't sure if they'd modified the sensor or what.
Speaker B:But subsequently I found out that it doesn't need modifying.
Speaker B:You can use them as they come out the box.
Speaker B:But anyway, I bought this thing from America and I told Roger, I said, if it works, this camera will maybe see you as a spirit, and if it does see you as a spirit, it'll put a, a green stick figure onto the screen where you are.
Speaker B:So generally the thing is this sensor is plugged into a computer, tablet computer, and you see just a, an ordinary picture of the scene that things looking at.
Speaker B:So it just looks totally like what you're seeing with your eyes.
Speaker B:But if, if it detects a spirit, then it'll put a green stick figure onto the, onto the view in the tablet screen.
Speaker B:And so that's what we did.
Speaker B:We ordered this one.
Speaker B:And the other thing I ordered was a Ovilus 3, which people who don't know it's like an electronic talking dictionary that spirits can somehow operate.
Speaker B:And there's just over 2,000 words in its database.
Speaker B:These are American, so there's American words, some words, you know, you might not use in English language.
Speaker B:But even though Roger obviously was a.
Speaker B:He was a, you know, English was his thing, his subject, if you like, you know, that he'd studied and one or two words he has trouble finding the English total equivalent of, but it does well.
Speaker B:And so I said to him, we're going to order this.
Speaker B:Ovalis 3, which I'd seen on the program, seemed to be the main one at the time that I thought seemed to work the best and seemed to be the most popular.
Speaker B:So again, that was another.
Speaker B:This was an obsolete thing, but, you know, they went for a lot of money and this was sort of after the COVID time.
Speaker B:So things like this were very popular.
Speaker B:So even secondhand they were, they were a fortune.
Speaker B:So this Ovilus costs nearly a thousand pound from America, won it on a auction website or ebay to everyone who knows.
Speaker B:And anyway, the, the Ovilus and the SLS camera both came on the same day from America, surprisingly, even though they're from different companies.
Speaker B:So when they came, Caroline was At work.
Speaker B: And it was December: Speaker B:It was freezing cold, you know, really way below freezing.
Speaker B:And we had our elderly spaniel who I would.
Speaker B:We would take her to the cemetery or wherever.
Speaker B:And she.
Speaker B:She had trouble walking because of her age and that we had a push chair for her.
Speaker B:So I had all the equipment in her push chair so that, you know, it wasn't obvious when you went into the cemetery that you got a load of electronic gadgets with you because that some people would have been very upset possibly, you know, had there been anyone else in the cemetery at the time.
Speaker B:We could hide the stuff if there was anyone around.
Speaker B:If someone came, we could hide them in the push chair.
Speaker B:But anyway, I went in by myself because Caroline was at work this day when this equipment had come, you know.
Speaker B:And so I went with the dog and got to the grave and turned the equipment on.
Speaker B:The ovilus and the SLS camera and also the K2 meter.
Speaker B:And I should just say, actually, but that since we've been filming things initially before we got the equipment being filming with the iPhone.
Speaker B:So when we got any of this equipment, I still kept filming it all.
Speaker B:Every time I used it, I would film it with the iPhone because I wanted a record of what, if anything, happened, I didn't want to not have filmed it and then regret it.
Speaker B:And so everything we did, I filmed because I wanted to refer back to it later if.
Speaker B:If there was anything interesting at all.
Speaker B:So anyway, turned all this equipment on at the graveside, and as soon as it was on, and I sort of held the camera up and looked around, suddenly there's a green stick figure there immediately.
Speaker B:And I realized that was Roger, you know, so I'm getting quite emotional at this.
Speaker B:I'm saying, roger, that's you, isn't it?
Speaker B:And occasionally he came out with a suitable word on the Ovilus.
Speaker B:Now, often on the Ovilus, he comes out with words and you think, what's he mean with that word?
Speaker B:I don't understand that.
Speaker B:But every now and again, you know, he would come out with a suitable word.
Speaker B:And I. I can't remember exactly that first day any appropriate words that he came out with, but there were one or two that he did.
Speaker B:And when.
Speaker B:When Roger does show on the equipment, which he still does, this is three years late, and he still shows on the equipment.
Speaker B:When he does, he'll come out with some words like squeeze or hug or kiss or something like that.
Speaker B:So I sort of know that these are words that he uses.
Speaker B:And he's sort of just Basically saying, effectively, I'm here and, you know, I'm giving you a hug or whatever.
Speaker B:And it's, it's very nice.
Speaker B:It's very sort of reassuring.
Speaker B:But there, there have been times in later times when I used the camera and had the ovus on that he'd come out with the most amazing, amazingly appropriate word.
Speaker B:So I, I knew that was definitely him.
Speaker B:So anyway, this first time I had the camera on for.
Speaker B:Had the equipment on for just over 20 minutes.
Speaker B:And by this stage, me and the dog were getting absolutely frozen stiff.
Speaker B:You know, my fingers, I could hardly feel them anymore because it was so cold.
Speaker B:But Roger was there all that time.
Speaker B:And in the end I said, this is just amazing, Roger.
Speaker B:I can't believe what you're doing.
Speaker B:I, I thought, you know, I might have a long process of trying to find you using this equipment.
Speaker B:And I thought it might never happen.
Speaker B:You know, it could go on for months or years even, and suddenly you're there.
Speaker B:At the first time I turn it on, I couldn't believe it.
Speaker B:So I said to him, you know, I'm going to turn it off now, even though you're still showing up.
Speaker B:You know, I apologize for turning it off while you're there, but I, Me and the dog need to get home now.
Speaker B:And we'll come back in a couple of days when Caroline's not working, come back at the weekend.
Speaker B:And would you be able to perhaps bring Joan with you next time when we come and see you again?
Speaker B:So that's what happened.
Speaker B:So a couple of days later, on the Saturday, Karen and I and the dog went to the cemetery, turned the equipment on, and then Roger didn't show immediately.
Speaker B:It was a few minutes before saw him.
Speaker B:And then, then I saw Roger.
Speaker B:And then shortly afterwards, then saw another stick figure and realized that was Joan.
Speaker B:So suddenly they're both there on camera and Joan and Roger both showing up to us on the SLS camera.
Speaker B:And again, it was a really emotional time.
Speaker B:And like in life, Joan was showing up a lot more reluctantly than Roger was.
Speaker B:So Roger was sort of spearheading all this.
Speaker B:But Joan would just show up occasionally.
Speaker B:You know, if there was a good reason to, she would show up.
Speaker B:And obviously with Caroline, her daughter being there, that was a very good reason for Joan to, to come.
Speaker B:But on the whole, she doesn't show up so much just now and again.
Speaker B:And that's, as I say, she was like that.
Speaker B:In life, Roger would tend to be the one who was lead in the way with something.
Speaker B:And Joan would perhaps be there if she felt, you know, it wasn't too boring or whatever.
Speaker B:She might sort of show her face and be around for a bit and then she might walk out the room because she thought, oh, this isn't for me, I'll leave it.
Speaker B:And she'd disappear.
Speaker B:So they seem to have the same characters as they did in life.
Speaker B:So one thing that people might wonder is, you know, this ghost hunting equipment, it is.
Speaker B:Or you might think it's a bit gimmicky.
Speaker B:And because Roger was such a book fanatic and I rapidly realized that as I was filming and saving all these videos that I was going to have to do something with these videos.
Speaker B:And I thought, what can I do?
Speaker B:And I thought, I'll sort of list them on YouTube and that.
Speaker B:But that didn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Speaker B:And I was.
Speaker B:I was showing various people, but I wasn't getting the reaction.
Speaker B:I thought I might.
Speaker B:And after a while I realized I would perhaps have to write a book about it because Roger was so keen on books.
Speaker B:And I've got the impression that Roger was sort of effectively guiding me or directing me to write a book because Roger wanted me to tell his and Joan's story, you know, and Roger's effectively saying to us, well, via the equipment and what have you that look, I was wrong, there is an afterlife and you can see me on it and I want you to tell everyone about it via a book.
Speaker B:And that's what happened.
Speaker B:But before I actually started to write the book, having got the SLS camera where it seemed to work really well, and then the ovilus, and he would come out with the odd really good word.
Speaker B:But I realized very rapidly that the ovilus, even though he might come out with the occasional very good word, it's not like a conversation, you know, it's not a sentence.
Speaker B:And it's not like you talking to someone at all.
Speaker B:So you just, you have to sort of interpret what's coming through.
Speaker B:And every now and again there's a word and you think, oh yeah, that's totally right.
Speaker B:So I rapidly realized that I needed some help to try and communicate with Joan and Roger.
Speaker B:And I realized I wanted to try and get some mediums involved.
Speaker B:So Stephen Holbrook, that fantastic medium, who Roger had come through with a great message with three weeks after he died.
Speaker B:Stephen Holbrook only does public performances and he, he wouldn't do a one to one.
Speaker B:And I was a bit.
Speaker B:Well, I was a bit fed up that he wouldn't do a one to one.
Speaker B:And I Couldn't persuade him.
Speaker B:And he says, no, that's not what I do.
Speaker B:I only perform in public.
Speaker B:And that's just how it is with me.
Speaker B:So I was contacting some other mediums and the one or two mediums that were actually very negative, and they were saying to me, you shouldn't be doing what you're doing with this equipment.
Speaker B:You know, you could be trapping Joan Rogers spirits here on Earth, and they'll be earthbound spirits, you know, and that's really bad for them that you should just leave them, because that way they can sort of make their way to the afterlife and, you know, wherever they are supposed to be going.
Speaker B:But if I'm trying to sort of talk to them, communicate with them, I could be trapping them and, you know, doing something terrible to them.
Speaker B:And I was really worried about that.
Speaker B:I really.
Speaker B:That was the last thing I wanted to do.
Speaker B:But luckily, I spoke to a really good medium who is familiar with all this equipment.
Speaker B:She uses it herself, and she's called Ali Mather, and she's also in Yorkshire, not too far from where we live.
Speaker B:And I said what I wanted to do with the equipment, I wanted the medium to sort of give me a reading effectively while I've got the equipment on and we can hopefully see Roger, maybe Joan, you know, on camera while she's giving us a reading.
Speaker B:And I thought that would hopefully prove that the spirit is there in the room with us wherever we are, and we're getting the reading simultaneously.
Speaker B:And that would just prove, I thought, that it's, you know, Roger, say, in the room with us, and he's talking to us through the medium.
Speaker B:So she agreed that we'd try this.
Speaker B:So we went over to her house, took the equipment, and then went into the room where we're going to have the reading with her.
Speaker B:And I turned the equipment on, and while we're waiting for her to make some coffees for us, Karen and I, we're sat down, I'm filming, and there's Roger's spirit there in the room with us.
Speaker B:So for, I don't know, five minutes or more, is on camera while she's making the coffees.
Speaker B:And then as she comes in the room with the coffees, suddenly the spirit seems to go and disappear into Ali Mather, into the medium.
Speaker B:And I said, oh, Annie, such a shame he's been here all this time.
Speaker B:And then just as you came in the room, he's disappeared into you.
Speaker B:And she said, no, that's.
Speaker B:That's a good thing, actually.
Speaker B:It means he's blended with me and should get a better reading with that.
Speaker B:And that's what happened.
Speaker B:So we got this amazing reading through Ali Mather and she was coming out with all the.
Speaker B:Roger's complicated medical history and it was so spot on.
Speaker B:It was incredible.
Speaker B:And every time she said something that was so accurate regarding his medical problems, then Roger would flash the K2 meter very strongly, you know, as if to say, yes, that's exactly right, you know, that you're right, you've got it, or whatever.
Speaker B:And it was just an amazing reading.
Speaker B:But Roger didn't show up again as a spirit while we were having this reading.
Speaker B:But he was obviously there and I had the.
Speaker B:Kate had the ovilus on as well.
Speaker B:And every now and again he would come out with a suitable word, but with the K2 meter, he was definitely sort of emphasizing things that she said and agreeing with it.
Speaker B:So it was an amazing reading.
Speaker B:So Ali Mather, she's such a positive person and you know, in communication with her, I was saying to her, I said, I'm going to be.
Speaker B:I'm planning to write a book about Joan, Roger and what they've done.
Speaker B:And she was saying, yes, you will do that.
Speaker B:I can see that you're going to do that and it will be successful.
Speaker B:And she gave me some very good advice.
Speaker B:And she said, have you heard of a book and a film called the Secret?
Speaker B:And I said, no, never heard of that.
Speaker B:And she said, well, it's a sort of motivational thing and if you sort of can visualize something that you want to achieve, then if you sort of picture yourself doing it, you know, very keep it in your mind.
Speaker B:For instance, the book.
Speaker B:If you.
Speaker B:If I visualize me doing this book and it gets done and finished and sold to people, then she said, you know, it, it can happen, you know, if you.
Speaker B:If you're very positive about it.
Speaker B:So I, I watched this film she gave and it was a strange film, you know, like a strange marketing sales type thing.
Speaker B:But it.
Speaker B:I did sort of keep all its messages to heart and I did visualize this book and eventually it did happen.
Speaker B:Did take a couple of attempts.
Speaker B:My initial attempt at the book, it didn't seem to be working out.
Speaker B:I'd written a few chapters and I. I was sort of getting stuck and I was thinking this isn't really working.
Speaker B:And I wasn't sure how to incorporate all the pictures, you know, the photographs or to be honest, they're nearly all videos.
Speaker B:How, how could I incorporate videos into a book?
Speaker B:It just, I couldn't work.
Speaker B:It Out.
Speaker B:And I. I thought, well, if I'm gonna say, have still pictures in the book printed, you know, it makes the book more expensive and publishers won't want to do that and it's not going to really be the same thing.
Speaker B:And then eventually I hit upon the idea of having the QR code on the front cover of the book.
Speaker B:And then people can access all the videos that we've got that are relevant.
Speaker B:You know, there's actually a video for each chapter in the book and the chapter describes what you see in that video.
Speaker B:And via this QR code, you can access the YouTube channel that we've got with these videos on and you can see that video for that chapter.
Speaker B:And I realized that would should work very well.
Speaker B:And it meant there's no pictures in the book.
Speaker B:So the book is, you know, as cheap to print as.
Speaker B:As it could be and therefore, hopefully a publisher might be interested.
Speaker B:So that was my plan.
Speaker B:And I was starting to write the book and then struggling a bit again.
Speaker B:And Caroline's best friend in Australia, Joe, who is an English teacher, had offered to edit the book for me, which was great.
Speaker B:And so when I was a bit stuck with.
Speaker B:Just so happened that Jo came over to visit Caroline by herself, not with her husband.
Speaker B:She came over to England and stayed with us for a little while, for a couple of weeks or whatever, and she sort of motivated me to carry on with the book.
Speaker B:She said what I'd already written was decent, she could, you know, sort that out, but I still had a lot of chapters left to write and she motivated me.
Speaker B:And so when she went home, it was just before our summer holidays and Karan and I both.
Speaker B:Well, at the time I was a school bus driver, which I still am, and I get all the school holidays, which is really nice, and it gives me time to do things.
Speaker B:And so I spent the rest of the summer holidays that year finishing writing the book and the chapters just all sort of fell out of me.
Speaker B:And with very little effort, all the rest of the book was written.
Speaker B:So then Joe was able to edit it and it didn't need a lot doing to it, apparently.
Speaker B:So Caroline had, regarding publishing.
Speaker B:Now I'd got the book written, I thought, you know, we can perhaps send it to some publishers and see what happens.
Speaker B:But I was sort of struggling to find a publisher.
Speaker B:But Caroline somehow on the Internet found this publisher that sounded ideal.
Speaker B:They deal in spiritual and paranormal stuff and neither of us had heard of them.
Speaker B:And anyway, we sent the book to them and straight away they offered me the thing.
Speaker B:Deal to publish the book, which is amazing.
Speaker B:So everything just sort of slotted into place and I'm certain that Roger has sort of planned all this and he's organized it all and he's pulling all the strings and you know, from this he and Joan in the afterlife and various other people up there helping.
Speaker B:And then there's us here on Earth and between the few of us, you know, there's a half a dozen or more of us in this team and we, and we're doing it.
Speaker B:And so that's what happened.
Speaker B:So the book was written and it's going to be published just in a few weeks time now at the end of April.
Speaker B:And so it is actually available now to pre order on Amazon and plenty of other places.
Speaker B:Barnes and Noble in America, the Guardian bookshop in the uk, you know, the Guardian newspaper bookshop and anywhere else that sells books.
Speaker B:So it can be pre ordered and then you don't pay anything until they send it out.
Speaker B:So it should be delivered sort of very early May.
Speaker B:So for anyone who is interested, who likes the sound of any of this, the book is called Alive in the Afterlife.
Speaker B:Sorry, it's called Joan and Roger Alive in the Afterlife.
Speaker B:And I don't know if you've did have you seen the front cover of the book?
Speaker B:I don't know if Gav might have sent you that, but yes, if you can see that that is the front cover of the book and that's the QR code I was talking about.
Speaker B:So anyone now even on the Amazon listing you can use that QR code and it works so you can see the videos.
Speaker B:And I'm really pleased the book ended up exactly how I planned it, except for two very minor points.
Speaker B:So one is my name's on the book as the author and I had wanted Roger's name on it, but Caroline's sister Alison didn't want her dad's name on it as a author, co author.
Speaker B:For some reason I don't still don't quite understand why she was happy with everything else about the book, but she wouldn't have that.
Speaker B:So fair enough.
Speaker B:And the other thing was I wanted Joan and Roger's actual photograph on the COVID but that wasn't allowed.
Speaker B:So it's just a generic couple viewed from the back.
Speaker B:But another thing on the COVID is there's a photograph of the equipment in use.
Speaker B:You can see it there in this picture.
Speaker B:And that picture there is the actual SLS camera footage taken at the cemetery when Joan and Roger appeared to us for the very first time.
Speaker B:So it's not some cobbled together, mocked up thing, but it is the actual photograph, which, as I say, was a really emotional thing when they both showed up on camera for the first time ever.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's just all been incredible, but it is their true story.
Speaker B:And as I say, Roger was a book fanatic.
Speaker B:Books were everything to him and education was everything.
Speaker B:So Roger is definitely saying, look, I was wrong.
Speaker B:You know, there is an afterlife and I'm here and I. I'm showing people that there's an afterlife.
Speaker B:You can see me on this SLS camera and, you know, believe me, I'm here and this is our story, which is true.
Speaker B:And he wants as many people to read the story as possible.
Speaker B: 's undecided, like I was till: Speaker B:So, so many people, I think, you know, they've been taught perhaps through religion, you know, me, a Catholic, and Roger, Jehovah's Witness and all the other Christian faiths and plenty of other religions.
Speaker B:You know, we've all been taught that there is an afterlife, but we all sort of take it on trust and it, to many of us, it just sounds too unbelievable.
Speaker B:It just doesn't sound possible, you know, in this, in the west, where we have all the scientists and so many things, the scientists seem to have the upper hand with the story.
Speaker B:And if it can't be sort of measured or brought into a lab and seen properly, then scientists generally say, you know, it's not real, it doesn't exist.
Speaker B:But I know there are niche scientists, you know, parapsychology people and others who are sort of chipping away at it.
Speaker B:But the general feeling from scientists seems to be that, you know, everything spiritual and that is bit balmy, a bit nonsensical, It.
Speaker B:It's not real, but many of us know now that it is.
Speaker B:So this book is aimed at people who are not sure and open to persuasion.
Speaker B:One of the biggest criticisms, obviously, of the SLS camera is there's plenty of people who say, and it's on the Internet and Everywhere and on YouTube and that they, they tell you why an SLS camera doesn't work, you know, why it's not real.
Speaker B:It's just sort of mis.
Speaker B:Triggering.
Speaker B:And the room I'm in now, it's got this very strong pattern wallpaper and furniture here and there.
Speaker B:And the camera, skeptics will say, is just picking up on shapes in the room and it's Just seeing things and then it thinks, oh, that could be something, and it puts a stick figure on, even though it's not really a spirit there.
Speaker B:But another thing I needed for the book was scientific validation that this SLS camera really is seeing spirits.
Speaker B:So initially I made contact with the top author and biologist Rupert Sheldrake, Dr. Rupert Sheldrake.
Speaker B:And after Joan died, I read a number of his books and I was amazed at some of the things he was describing.
Speaker B:And his come up come out with so many scientific experiments that prove, you know, telepathy is real.
Speaker B:And he's done numerous experiments with lots of people and they've been replicated by other scientists and, and it proven that telepathy really is a real thing does work.
Speaker B:And it seems that distance isn't an object.
Speaker B:You know, people on the other side of the world can be just as effective with telepathy as someone in the room with you.
Speaker B:So I contacted Rupert Sheldrake and I showed him, you know, one or two of my videos and said, you know, would you be to prove, validate, confirm if you like, that this stick figure is seeing a real spirit?
Speaker B:And he said, well, no, I don't do that.
Speaker B:You know, that's not what I do.
Speaker B:And I said, well, who, you know, who could I talk to?
Speaker B:What scientists would be able to do this?
Speaker B:And he put me in touch with the spr, the Society for Psychical Research, who I'd never heard of at that time, and they're the oldest organization in the country, or in the world rather, who were set up to look specifically for evidence of life after death.
Speaker B:And he put me in touch with them.
Speaker B:And after quite a protracted business trying to get in touch with the right person and emails that didn't get through to people, etcetera, Eventually I did get in touch with people that were slightly interested in Roger's story and I was hoping they would come and do a proper investigation on Roger and everything on, on the SLS camera and the other equipment.
Speaker B:But in the end there was only one person who seemed interested and seemed to be free to come.
Speaker B:So it wasn't a proper official SPR investigation where they would have two people.
Speaker B:But anyway, this Aaron Lomas, he's a.
Speaker B:He was a Paris Parapsychology PhD student at Northampton University who specialized in all this sort of thing, but he was a member of the SPR and he's a member of the Spontaneous Cases Committee who investigate things like this like hauntings or whatever.
Speaker B:Anyway, I persuaded him and he came up to See us in Yorkshire.
Speaker B:And he came for the weekend and I showed him all the videos and he was taking all his notes and he was sort of writing up a.
Speaker B:You know, everything about Roger.
Speaker B:And he was sort of.
Speaker B:He was interested, but he wasn't totally convinced.
Speaker B:And again, he was putting forward the argument for the SLS camera, you know, being fooled in our house, particularly with all the patterns in the wallpaper and the furniture and everything.
Speaker B:And he's saying, you know, the camera might just be tricked into thinking there's something there when there isn't really.
Speaker B:But he was still.
Speaker B:He was still sort of open to things and.
Speaker B:And it was strange because he's taking his notes, he's sat on our settee and there's Roger showing up, you know, as a stick figure next to him on the settee.
Speaker B:And Roger's coming out with one or two great words on the Ovalis.
Speaker B:And one of them, I remember, was records.
Speaker B:And that's Aaron is sort of recording things.
Speaker B:And I think he said notes or something like that.
Speaker B:And Roger.
Speaker B:Aaron's writing his notes in it on his.
Speaker B:You know, in his notebook sort of thing.
Speaker B:So I knew it was Roger, but Aaron wasn't totally convinced.
Speaker B:So over the next 18 months or so, I said to Aaron, look, I really.
Speaker B:I'm writing this book and I really want some sort of scientific validation that this is Roger on the SLS camera.
Speaker B:You know, what would it take?
Speaker B:What would make you believe that the camera really is seeing a spirit?
Speaker B:And he said, well, if we could have the camera in a totally neutral room, say a totally plain white room with plain white walls, no pattern to them, if the spirit showed up there on one of those white walls, then.
Speaker B:Then I would be convinced.
Speaker B:So I said, okay, well, let's try and do that.
Speaker B:And Aaron, he wasn't familiar with SLS cameras.
Speaker B:He'd obviously heard of them, but he hadn't used one himself.
Speaker B:So I got him one and I sent it to him.
Speaker B:I said, look, you do your various experiments with this, get the feel of it, and then when you're happy, then we'll meet up and we'll do some tests together with the two cameras.
Speaker B:And he agreed.
Speaker B:So, you know, some months after he'd got the camera that I'd sent him, then once he was happy that he knew all about it, then he booked a room at Northampton University.
Speaker B:And it was actually over the Easter holidays, and there was virtually no one else on campus, which was great.
Speaker B:So we were there almost by ourselves.
Speaker B:So we.
Speaker B:I drove down 150 miles to Northampton and met him and we went into this room and then we.
Speaker B:We started to do a few tests with the two cameras.
Speaker B:Him with the one I'd sent him and me with my one.
Speaker B:And the idea was that we'd do various side by side things with both cameras looking in the same direction and see did it see the same things.
Speaker B:And he had a whole series of tests planned out and we sort of went through all this.
Speaker B:I'm not sure what they all were.
Speaker B:It was all something I wasn't too bothered about.
Speaker B:As long as he was happy, then that was fine.
Speaker B:But I was wanting to see Roger there on this white wall.
Speaker B:And I'd asked Roger to come and I was very hopeful he would, because I'd found that Roger would show up wherever I had the camera on.
Speaker B:You know, when I turned the camera on, virtually every time Roger is there, he might take a while to show.
Speaker B:It can take, you know, 20 minutes sometimes for him to show up.
Speaker B:And I don't know why that is, but it does sometimes.
Speaker B:But nearly every time he will show up eventually.
Speaker B:So I'd said to Roger, you know, will you come down to Northampton and, you know, show up on camera?
Speaker B:And Roger always seems keen to sort of help with anything like this, anything scientific or in the way of sort of showing people that it's him.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So anyway, I said to Aaron, you keep taking your notes, you know, all your sort of very sort of detailed notes that he takes about everything.
Speaker B:Whenever he's doing any investigation, I just tend to turn the equipment on and video it and carry on and get going, because I know that if I don't, if I.
Speaker B:If I were to take lots of notes like Aaron often told me to, I knew that Roger would probably get bored and he would disappear before he'd even shown up in the first place.
Speaker B:So I just sort of get going and most times that seems to pay off.
Speaker B:So I turn my camera on and Aaron's taking all his notes and I'm filming Aaron sat at his table.
Speaker B:I'm filming the plain white wall behind him.
Speaker B:Anyway, after about half an hour, Roger hadn't shown up.
Speaker B:And I'm starting to panic and thinking, oh, dear, this is a.
Speaker B:This is a real blower.
Speaker B:I really wanted Roger to show up.
Speaker B:I wanted this scientific proof.
Speaker B:So the book's got some validation and people are going to believe that this is all true.
Speaker B:And so, as with all computers, they can play up sometimes and this SLS camera is normally pretty reliable.
Speaker B:But occasionally I do turn the computer off and restart it.
Speaker B:So I did that this time and within a few minutes of restarting it, then suddenly there is a green stick figure there showing up on the plain white wall.
Speaker B:So I say to Aaron, right, Roger's here, I'll keep filming.
Speaker B:Don't you get up, don't sort of stand up and walk in front.
Speaker B:Because sometimes if, if a physical human walks in front of the spirit, it seems to stop the camera working for a while, you know, it loses track of the spirit.
Speaker B:That's my experience anyway.
Speaker B:And I said to her, and you keep sat where you are and I'll film the spirit and then when the spirit disappears or whatever, I'll, I'll show you the video and you can see, you know, what's happened.
Speaker B:So anyway, Roger's showing up there for sort of over four minutes and I'm saying to Aaron, right, is there anything else you need me to do for you to accept that that is a spirit that is seeing?
Speaker B:And he said, no, no, that's it.
Speaker B:So I was really happy.
Speaker B:That was all the validation I needed.
Speaker B:So I then showed him what I'd filmed and he seemed happy with that.
Speaker B:So if anyone is interested in seeing that, if you use that QR code as saying about on the book cover that you can see on the Amazon listing or wherever, then you can get to our YouTube channel.
Speaker B:And to get the flavor of Roger on the SLS camera and what the whole book is about, the first video that perhaps it'd be worth watching is it's entitled SPR Investigator Confirms SLS Camera Sees Genuine Spirit.
Speaker B:And it's a six minute one second run time.
Speaker B:So I'm just saying that because the initial video was a lot longer and I think that's on that same channel.
Speaker B:But the six minute, one second version is like the, the main highlights, if you like this, over four minutes of Roger showing up as a green stick figure and Aaron sort of accepting that yes, the camera is seeing a genuine spirit.
Speaker B:So yeah, basically Roger had done everything he needed to do and I just couldn't have been happier.
Speaker B:And so in the book there's a chapter on the SPR and all the investigations.
Speaker B:There's a chapter on each of the mediums that helped with the book.
Speaker B:So there's Stephen Holbrook, who Roger showed up to initially.
Speaker B:We did actually film with this equipment at one of Stephen's shows.
Speaker B:Karan asked him if we could and he said yes.
Speaker B:And I was amazed that he agreed.
Speaker B:And so we're on the front row because you have to be within 12ft of something for the camera to detect it, which I've sort of experimented with and verified, so had to be on the front row.
Speaker B:And Stephen walks around a lot during his shows.
Speaker B:So while he's coming out with various readings for various people, then a number of times there are several spirits on camera.
Speaker B:Anyway, there's one spirit that Caroline is convinced is her dad, Roger, showing up as a spirit behind Stephen Holbrook.
Speaker B:So during his shows he has an interval and when the intervals coming up, he tells the audience, he says, right, we're gonna have a break now and if anyone wants to buy one of my books, because there's four books that have been written about Stephen Holbrooke, he's pointing to a pile of books behind him and he said, you know, people can come buy one of these books.
Speaker B:And then behind him on the SLS camera is a big green stick figure spirit, and it appears to be pointing to this pile of books.
Speaker B:Well, Roger being a book fanatic, that that's exactly what he would have done.
Speaker B:So I'm pretty sure, like Karen says, that is her dad there on camera with Stephen Holbrooke.
Speaker B:So that was amazing.
Speaker B:So there's a chapter on Stephen Holbrooke, There's a chapter on Ali May, the amazing medium who we went to her house and she gave us incredible reading.
Speaker B:And then there's also a chapter on Liz Murphy.
Speaker B:She's an American medium.
Speaker B:And it's a long story how we sort of got in touch with her.
Speaker B:The basic story is Caroline was buying some stuff on ebay, some knitting patterns or whatever, and this Liz Murphy in America was selling them and Karen bought some.
Speaker B:And then suddenly Karen gets a message from Liz Murphy saying, I'm stopping doing the knitting stuff, but I'm becoming a full time or professional medium.
Speaker B:And if you want a reading, I'll give you the first one free sort of thing.
Speaker B:And that's how that all came about.
Speaker B:Anyway, it is quite a convoluted story.
Speaker B:And we had a reading with her and it was good, but we hadn't told her that I was using the equipment in our living room here in the UK while I was filming Caroline with her iPad and Liz Murphy in America giving her reading.
Speaker B:So Joan, Roger did show up to that event and I got them on camera as stick figures.
Speaker B:And when, when we told Liz Murphy after the event, she was really upset with us that we'd filmed without warning her or telling her that we were going to use the stuff.
Speaker B:And she was really cross with us, which I fully understood.
Speaker B:I said, to Caroline at the time, you.
Speaker B:You should tell her.
Speaker B:But Karen said, no, if.
Speaker B:If nothing happens, then I didn't want to sort of frighten her off and not have her do the reading in the first place.
Speaker B:So, anyway, about a year later, I persuaded her to do another reading.
Speaker B:And by this time she'd sort of calmed down and she agreed to do a reading where it was all above board and she knew what we were doing, that we were using the equipment, and that time it worked really well.
Speaker B:And so I'm filming Caroline again on her iPad while Liz Murphy's in America.
Speaker B:We're in our living room here in England and I'm filming it and all the time for over an hour.
Speaker B:While the readings are going on with Liz Murphy, Joan and Roger are showing up there as stick figures on the city or around the city near Caroline.
Speaker B:And they're just sort of there in the room with us for the whole hour, showing up for the whole time while Liz Murphy is giving these phenomenal readings.
Speaker B:And the reading from Joan, from Caroline's mother, was so spot on.
Speaker B:It was incredible.
Speaker B:And she was coming out with things like Liz is saying, I can see your mum with a whole load of children.
Speaker B:You know, did she have a lot of children?
Speaker B:You know, have you got lots of brothers and sisters or whatever?
Speaker B:And Karen said, no, not at all.
Speaker B:There's any.
Speaker B:Me and Alison.
Speaker B:I don't know what that is.
Speaker B:And then suddenly it hit her and she said, oh, yes, Mum was a nursery nurse.
Speaker B:She worked with children, she was surrounded by children, she loved children.
Speaker B:So that's exactly right.
Speaker B:And Liz is coming out with all these incredibly accurate things about her mum, about Caroline's mum, Joan, and she's saying things like, would I be right in saying that your dad, it was.
Speaker B:It was all about him.
Speaker B:It was sort of me, me, me.
Speaker B:And Karen says, yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker B:He was pretty selfish.
Speaker B:And Liz is coming out with all this stuff, and so it's amazing that mediums, you know, can come out with the exact character of the person.
Speaker B:And it's totally apparent that the people, even when they've lost their physical human body, they're still the same person, you know, in the afterlife.
Speaker B:They've still got all the same character traits and they behave in the same way and it is all just totally amazing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So, yeah, everything in this book, as I say, it's totally true.
Speaker B:And it's Joan and Roger's story, and Roger wanted his story to be told.
Speaker B:He wants as many people as possible to read his story.
Speaker B:And I'm still in awe of what they've done.
Speaker B:It's still totally incredible.
Speaker B:And it's over three years now since we got this ghost hunting equipment.
Speaker B:And Roger, Roger loved electronic gadgets.
Speaker B:And it's totally appropriate that this is actually a serious book about the afterlife.
Speaker B:You know, there's serious lessons here for all of us on Earth, what happens when we die, which is something I've always wondered, you know, what happens when we die.
Speaker B:And till I was convinced there was an afterlife, which Joan finally convinced us of, you know, we don't know.
Speaker B:But here we are, we're seeing Joan and Roger showing up on a electronic gadget, and that really is them.
Speaker B:And to the skeptics who say, you know, this camera isn't really seeing spirits.
Speaker B:Well, we've had the scientist who's confirmed that it is seeing spirits.
Speaker B:And if you think about it, you know, what is there to see?
Speaker B:The camera is looking at an invisible spirit, and the only way it can show it is by detecting it.
Speaker B:And it puts this green stick figure on.
Speaker B:So all the skeptics who say the cameras don't work well, you know, I know that they do, and the scientists have sort of confirmed that.
Speaker B:And the camera, technically, you know, it's absolutely full of electronics.
Speaker B:And the software that runs on the tablet is, you know, there's a load of software and it needs a very high spec computer to run properly on it.
Speaker B:So it's incredibly sophisticated.
Speaker B:So it's just amazing that it does what it does.
Speaker B:But the camera, actually, as I say, it's called structured light sensor.
Speaker B:So it sends out a million infrared dots.
Speaker B:So if those dots are sort of working at the maximum range of the camera, which is 12ft, then each dot is only about 3 millimeters away from the next dot.
Speaker B:So there's this amazing grid of infrared dots, and somehow the camera is sending them out.
Speaker B:And then as they get reflected back off, whatever it sees, then the camera can detect if any of these dots have moved out of position.
Speaker B:So the camera was designed initially to see living, physical human beings, and it can track them and it knows where there's a physical human being.
Speaker B:But when it's looking at a invisible spirit, then, you know, people say, well, how does it work?
Speaker B:And from everything I read and people that have sort of explained things to me, as far as I can tell, I think what's happening is that the camera with these infrared dots, I think it sends out the infrared.
Speaker B:And then when it gets reflected back, if there's any movement in the air and the spirits are basically some form of electrical energy or they can influence electrical energy somehow.
Speaker B:So I think there's like an electric field in the air, obviously invisible.
Speaker B:And an electric field can move water vapor because water is a polarized molecule.
Speaker B:So I believe what's happening is all air has some water vapor in it at some percentage or other.
Speaker B:And if, if the spirit moves through its electric charge, if it moves some water molecules where the spirit is, then the infrared dots of light are imperceptibly moved slightly and the camera can detect that slight rearrangement of the water molecules.
Speaker B:And so I think that's how it detects the spirit there in the first place.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So yeah, inevitably this camera is looking at an invisible thing and it puts a green stick figure on.
Speaker B:And that's how I believe it works.
Speaker B:So Joan and Roger have never done anything like appear as a manifestation, like a ghost as such.
Speaker B:And Joan and Roger just, or Roger particularly, seems to operate the equipment.
Speaker B:And as far as I can tell, the SLS, the Ovilus talking dictionary and this K2 meter are the things that he can operate.
Speaker B:I've tried lots of other bits of kit and he doesn't seem to be able to operate them.
Speaker B:So, you know, other spirits can activate various things, you know, EVPs and that which other spirits can do where they talk on a recorder.
Speaker B:We've tried that with Roger.
Speaker B:It doesn't seem to work.
Speaker B:But Roger has manipulated mobile phones.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:When we were at the cemetery before his funeral and we moved this potted rose plant, Caroline was filming me while I did that and loaded it in the wheelbarrow.
Speaker B:And that video, for some reason, it.
Speaker B:It was recorded on half speed.
Speaker B:Well, she hadn't set that.
Speaker B:So I believe Roger had manipulated the phone to do that and initially just seemed like a strange thing, you know, why has he done that?
Speaker B:And it was months before I realized when I studied the footage that he wanted me to see something particular, I think so, on this rose plant that I was moving off Jones grave prior to Roger's funeral, there appeared to be lots of little flies flying around this rose.
Speaker B:And I thought, well, that's a bit strange.
Speaker B:I don't remember seeing all these flies at the time when I was moving the plant, because there were so many on the screen.
Speaker B:I would have seen them had they all been there, but I hadn't.
Speaker B:And when I looked really carefully and tracked each one and sort of zoomed in, it seemed to me they weren't physical flies, you know, not real insects, but they were some sort of spirit flies.
Speaker B:I think, which is what I've heard of.
Speaker B:And they were just like little dots of light almost.
Speaker B:Either a white dot of light or a black one.
Speaker B:So the white ones would move around in strange paths, and they seem to be coming into and out of the soil around the rose.
Speaker B:So a white dot of light, for instance, would seem to be sort of moving in a strange way, almost like a flying fly.
Speaker B:And then it would instantly turn to black, or a black one would instantly turn to white, and they would suddenly just disappear.
Speaker B:And you couldn't see them anymore.
Speaker B:So you couldn't see sort of proper.
Speaker B:Well, you could see sort of wings, but they were moving quite slowly that, you know, they didn't.
Speaker B:Obviously a fly, the wings are sort of invisible because they're beaten so fast.
Speaker B:But as far as I could see, these weren't physical flies.
Speaker B:And what I think they were and obviously could be wrong, but I think they were perhaps each one was an individual spirit that was coming for Roger before his funeral, you know, to welcome him to the afterlife or whatever.
Speaker B:And, you know, that's my conclusion from that.
Speaker B:We did have one or two other interesting things.
Speaker B:It was actually.
Speaker B:I think it was.
Speaker B:Might have been a year or so after Roger had died.
Speaker B:If I remember rightly, I could be wrong with the timing, but Caroline was working for the local newspaper in Goole, the town where we live, and for some reason she was just.
Speaker B:Something made her look out the window.
Speaker B:And so she looked out the window at the building opposite, and she saw all these little dots of light in the sky, all sort of dancing round.
Speaker B:And it was a bright blue sky, you know, really sunny day.
Speaker B:There's all these little dots of light sort of jumping around, dancing around above the roof of the building opposite.
Speaker B:So she gets her iPhone out to film, and she only gets one on.
Speaker B:On film, on video.
Speaker B:But it's the most incredible thing.
Speaker B:So it's some sort of flying creature.
Speaker B:And I. I looked at this footage and this thing is moving really quickly.
Speaker B:So I slowed it down as much as I could, and I've zoomed in and I've got the stills of the thing flying.
Speaker B:So it's about the size of a bird, a smallish bird, like a sparrow or a blackbird or something.
Speaker B:And it comes down from the sky and it's got a black body, but you can't see a head or tail.
Speaker B:There's no features to the body, it's just a black shape.
Speaker B:But it's got this.
Speaker B:These luminous white wings that are sort of beating.
Speaker B:They appear to be sort of really bright, brightly lit wings and they're beaten slowly and this creatures flies down in a straight line from the sky and then it disappears into the brickwork of the building opposite.
Speaker B:And it's the most amazing thing.
Speaker B:So another of the videos on the, on our channel, on this YouTube channel that we've got, it's signs from Joan and Roger.
Speaker B:So on that video there's a few different things but one of them is this strange flying creature, whatever it is, or supernatural creature.
Speaker B:And I've got the video to slowed as much as I can and I've got each of the stills that I can get from it where you can see, you know, the wings sort of beating but what it is, it's.
Speaker B:I don't know if that maybe is another spirit fly but a bigger one, but who knows.
Speaker B:But yeah, Roger can manipulate phones and it seems widely accepted that spirits are able to, you know, affect electronics and electrical stuff comparatively easily and that's what they do.
Speaker B:But as I say, Roger just seems to be able to in the way of ghost hunting equipment, use the SLS, the Ovilus and the K2 and all the other things I've tried with him, spirit boxes and I tried a later Ovilus, an Ovilus 5, a brand new one.
Speaker B:I thought he might be able to do that, you know, just as well as the Ovelous three but he couldn't seem to operate that.
Speaker B:So I just stuck with what, what I know works for him and we're happy with that.
Speaker B:And as I say over three years since getting this equipment and he's still, still able to show up every time virtually that I turn it on.
Speaker B:So he, he doesn't seem to have shown up tonight.
Speaker B:But as I say it's just one of those things you just can't predict when, when he'll do things like, like that.
Speaker B:But he has shown up in the last day or two.
Speaker B:But tonight isn't the night he's going to show but, but never mind.
Speaker B:So I think, I think really that's probably about it.
Speaker B:So anyone that's interested, as I say you can have a look at the book and pre order it.
Speaker B:So that's Joan and Roger alive in the afterlife.
Speaker B:So look on Amazon and just enter that Jordan Roger live in the afterlife and it will come up and you can have a look.
Speaker B:We've got a website, aliveintheafterlife.co.uk and if you go to that there's various links to our Facebook and Instagram or what have you.
Speaker B:Caroline, their daughter, my Wife, she does all that.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I'm not well up on all this, all Facebook and all the rest of it.
Speaker B:I just don't really understand that she does all that.
Speaker B:So I don't know.
Speaker B:But anyway, there's all the links to all the various things and when this.
Speaker B:When this podcast is all edited and available and the link for that, that'll be on the website as well, so people will be able to find that.
Speaker B:So I think that's it as far as I can.
Speaker B:As far as I can think.
Speaker B:Have you got any particular questions or have I.
Speaker B:Have I bored you silly or what?
Speaker E:No, it's been absolutely fascinating.
Speaker E:I was.
Speaker E:I was thinking questions as was going through, and then you.
Speaker E:You'd answer it, and then answer it.
Speaker E:And I. I was going to speak to you about the scientific stuff because I. I read in the book about the.
Speaker E:The spr.
Speaker E:Yeah, the SPR before, and they've been involved in like, the Enfield Polegeist Mini.
Speaker B:Oh, right.
Speaker B:Well, so, yeah, so.
Speaker E:And then you nailed that bit.
Speaker E:So.
Speaker E:No, it's good.
Speaker E:Very thorough sort of account of how you and Roger have sort of worked on the book.
Speaker E:It is a shame that you can get his name on as co author.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:If the book is ever reprinted, you know, then maybe I'll get his name on then.
Speaker B:But it's a minor point, but literally he has been, you know, the main driving force behind this.
Speaker B:You know, I've just sort of gone along with his wishes, I think, because in life he was similar to what he's doing here.
Speaker B:He sort of got me to do this book in life, he would give me projects sometimes, you know, like, for instance, in his house, he would say, you know, Jeremy, I want to change all my light bulbs to LED because they're cheaper to run and whatever, and could you do that?
Speaker B:So that was a project he gave me.
Speaker B:And like Caroline's sister's husband, Colin, who'd give him similar projects but different ones, you know, so he'd dish out these projects to us.
Speaker B:And it feels like that with the book, you know, he's saying, jeremy, I need you to write a book about what Joan and I are doing.
Speaker B:And, you know, Joan started it and Roger's carried it on.
Speaker B:He's given me this special project to do and it really genuinely feels like that.
Speaker B:And it's great, you know, I'm just so amazed at what he's done.
Speaker B:And as I say, so much of the book has just spilled out to me without loads of thinking, you know, it's you know, some of the chapters, I've just sort of come out with it and with very little editing.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's there, you know, so I'm certain that's him sort of giving me that through my mind or however it works, I'm not quite sure.
Speaker B:Channeling they call it, don't they?
Speaker B:But maybe that's it.
Speaker B:But he's definitely organized all this.
Speaker B:And there's so many things that are sort of.
Speaker B:You'd say they're coincidence, but they're too, too much to be coincidence, you know, they're, they're what's being organized so.
Speaker B:Well, one of the things is his surname, Watkins.
Speaker B:Now, the publisher of this book, it's owned by a company, Watkins Media.
Speaker B:But you wouldn't know that, you know, because the name of the publisher, it's six books, so it's not obvious, but, you know, definitely that was something that he organized one way or the other.
Speaker B:And there's so many little details like that that you think, oh gosh, that's an amazing coincidence.
Speaker B:But, you know, it's just been planned from, from beyond here, you know, and it's just amazing.
Speaker B:So it's just great, you know, I just can't believe what he's done.
Speaker B:I still can't quite believe what he's done.
Speaker B:And as I say, till.
Speaker B:Till Caroline and I were in our sort of mid to late 50s, we'd never experienced anything like this at all.
Speaker B:And basically we live pretty ordinary lives, but then suddenly, you know, all this happens and we could have never ever foreseen what they would do, you know, and it's just been so incredible and I just, I still can't believe it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:But it's true and it's real, you know, and yeah, I'm in awe of them.
Speaker B:It's just, just amazing.
Speaker B:And part of me thinks, well, you know, why didn't my parents when they died, why didn' this to me, you know, rather than Caroline's parents?
Speaker B:But it's not really my place to question it.
Speaker B:It's just a whole series of circumstances.
Speaker B:So Roger was a big skeptic, didn't believe in life after death.
Speaker B:And it's that that's motivated him, I think, you know, he's thinking, God, you know, suddenly he dies and he realizes that he's still alive in the afterlife.
Speaker B:And he's thinking, blimey, you know, I was wrong and I need to tell people I was wrong.
Speaker B:And you know, look at the evidence that people need to know this and they do, you know, so he's basically sort of confirming that all the main religions are right, There is life after death.
Speaker B:Even though it seems almost like a wacky idea to, you know, materialist scientific opinion or views, you know, it does seem bonkers, but it's true, you know, so even though the scientists can't explain all the ins and outs of it, you know, and a lot of scientists say all this spiritual stuff is rubbish, you know, we know it's true.
Speaker B:We've got people, you know, beyond approving that, that it's true.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, high percentage of people believe in ghosts and the afterlife, don't they?
Speaker B:But it's the scientists, generally the mainstream scientists who say, no, it's not real, you know, but I don't know, it's strange, you know, other cultures, you know, Eastern cultures and Native Americans, they obviously know the spirits and they've known that for years.
Speaker B:You know, the Egyptians, you know, they all believed in.
Speaker B:And when I was young, you know, you, I was fascinated with the ancient Egyptians and Tutankham and how they were all, how the pharaohs were buried and that, and there were these stories of curses and that.
Speaker B:And at the time, you know, my teaching, you know, my education at school was all scientific and, and I did pretty well in the sciences and the general view was, you know, all these things about the curses of the mummies and all the rest of it, you know, it's sort of people would laugh at it, you know, the scientific, supposedly people would laugh at it and they'd say, oh, that's just all rubbish.
Speaker B:But actually, I think so much of it is true and there's just so much we just don't understand.
Speaker B:You know, I think humans only understand the probably a fraction of a percent of everything that's happening and you know, the universe and everything, it's just so incredible.
Speaker B:And I always believed in a God, but I just didn't believe in life after death for 40 odd years.
Speaker B:And then suddenly Joan proves that, you know, there is life after death, to death.
Speaker B:And Roger carries on that proof and it's just, it's just amazing and I'm just so impressed and I'm just so happy what they've done and I'm so pleased to be a part of what they've organized.
Speaker B:It's just amazing.
Speaker B:But yeah, Roger was definitely motivated.
Speaker B:He wanted, it was his school teacher sort of background coming out.
Speaker B:He wanted to tell people, this is what I've learned since I've lost my physical body.
Speaker B:And I want you to pass the message on so it's just, it's just all brilliant and I'm so impressed with them.
Speaker B:So, so, yeah, and there's so many other things, aren't there?
Speaker B:You know, UFOs and that, which I used to think were rubbish, but the last few years I've realized that's all true as well.
Speaker B:And all these things, they all inter.
Speaker B:React with each other, don't they?
Speaker B:And the paranormal is such a vast subject and it seems like, you know, physical reality is just a tiny aspect of everything in the universe.
Speaker B:And this just so much we just don't understand, but doesn't mean it's not really so much of it is real.
Speaker B:It's just we've got so much to learn, haven't we?
Speaker B:So any bit of knowledge that comes our way, it's just valuable and it's, it's nice to get these little tidbits and find out a bit more of what we're all about.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's, that's as much as I can say, really.
Speaker B:I think I've said everything that I can think of.
Speaker D:No, no, definitely perfect message and thank you so much for sharing your story.
Speaker D:Caroline's story, Joe and Roger's story, everybody.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker D:We'll put the links to the books and YouTube and everything on our show notes as well so people can.
Speaker D:Because you can find it easily.
Speaker D:And good luck with the launch.
Speaker D:Obviously it's coming out and end the next month.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, congratulations as well.
Speaker D:It's not an easy thing to write a book.
Speaker B:Thanks ever so much.
Speaker B:Well, it's been a real privilege to talk to you both tonight and I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Glad you've found something of interest there and I'm, I'm hoping all your viewers will be equally interested and anyone who is interested if you just sort of pass the message on, tell your friends or anyone else who you think might be interested and if you do end up ordering the book and reading it, then hopefully you'll be interested in the, the whole full story, you know, because what I've said tonight is just merely scratching the surface of Joan Roger's story.
Speaker B:There's so much in there and yeah, it's just, it's just all amazing.
Speaker B:But yeah, it just keeps going from strength to strength.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I'm just so grateful to you both for inviting me on your podcast and yeah, it's just been a real pleasure talking to you.
Speaker B:So thanks so much.
Speaker B:It's been great.
Speaker E:Welcome.
Speaker B:Right, okay, thank you.
Speaker F:Thanks for listening to Pursuit of the Paranormal with Ash Ellis Title music created by Steve Yarwood and ambientfinity.
Speaker F:If you like the show, please follow us on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok X and Instagram.
Speaker F:And if you really like the show, please rate and review the show wherever you are listening.
Speaker F:It really does help.
Speaker F:See you next time.
Speaker F:And until then, stay weird.
